“Undoubtedly, today we have the comfort that we – both Germans and we Poles – are members of the European Union. It’s a community that, despite some of its deep flaws, has the unquestionable advantage that its dialogue takes place without cannons or assault planes. This very often difficult dialogue within the EU takes place according to certain rules, in which diplomacy also plays an important role “- historian, prof. Jan aryn.
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wPolyce.pl: How would you rate Poland’s chances of getting reparations? Will the diplomatic note signed today by the head of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs Zbigniew Rau bring us closer to this goal?
Prof. Jan aryn: Poland’s external historical policy should cover (and fortunately include) the theme of World War II and all that has to do with the tremendous losses of Poland – both personal and material – that resulted from the invasions of Germany and the Soviet Union. On the one hand, these are all works aimed at increasing the knowledge of world public opinion on this subject, and in democracies public opinion is important for achieving this goal – in this case I mean, of course, German public opinion .
But also the problem of affecting elites, especially Germans, but also pan-European or American ones, as well as the wider public opinion, so that it will be “attacked” from time to time by our World War II experience, because we know that it is not widely known. . On the one hand, this is a worldwide positivist distribution of a topic that is important from our Polish point of view.
As Poles, we are aware that in each of our families there is a memory of the Second World War. We did not create this topic artificially, it is natural for us, because it is our experience. This is a certain state of our natural claim to this truth about our destiny.
On the other hand, that is what happened today, namely the involvement of Polish state diplomacy in an effort to ensure that the German side is not only interested, but also compelled by the rules of the diplomatic game to raise this topic in the official Polish-German relations forum. Undoubtedly, today we have the comfort that we – both Germans and we Poles – are members of the European Union. It’s a community that, despite some of its deep flaws, has the unquestionable advantage that its dialogue takes place without cannons or assault planes. This very often difficult dialogue within the EU takes place according to certain rules, where diplomacy also plays an important role
There’s a diplomatic note – what’s next? In fact, everyone involved in the repair process says that this is a problem that could take years.
While we will certainly be asked – both from politicians and the public – to require great patience, sooner or later the German side will have to respond positively to our postulates, which of course have a certain dimension, namely the numbers calculated by the experts. as part of the report officially submitted to the German side.
Diplomacy is also about finding allies, and in this case our natural allies are Israel and the Jewish community, including America, which is very politically powerful. We recognize that the Second Republic consists not only of Poles, but also of minorities, including the Jewish minority, whose conditions are very specific: on the one hand, they are citizens of the Polish state, on the other – citizens of this particular country. the minority, by choice, did not assimilate with the great majority, lived their own lives, and the Polish state made such an internal development of the Jewish nation possible. So we have the opportunity to share some of this money, which will also be part of the Polish state budget, with the Jewish side precisely because of the extraordinary nature of this national minority.
Some in Poland asked why we would not seek compensation from the Russian Federation, the heir to the Soviet Union. Regardless of which side the Soviet Union was on after World War II, should we now seek reparations from a country that waged brutal wars and ignored any rules, disowned diplomacy and dialogue?
A substantive, historical and economic report, which will be prepared by experts: demographers, statisticians, economic historians, on the losses incurred by our country during the Soviet occupation, is of course the duty of the Polish state and I believe it will be the duty of the Polish state . created sooner or later. Of course, at the moment there is no energetic incentive for such a team to work, because current Polish-Russian relations make dialogue impossible. However, this should not affect the substantive part of the task.
Such a report, which can be prepared, for example, in the next 5 years, as a finished product, should function in the field of historical politics until Russia becomes a possible country for diplomatic dialogue. Sooner or later it will happen, although today it is clearly impossible to predict when. Currently, such a possibility does not exist, because the Russian state is clearly hostile to the Polish state. Today it is difficult to talk about the possibility of having a substantive dialogue with the Russian Federation on any topic, as long as this country does not change its imperialist character.
According to the Polish opposition, the government’s attempts to obtain reparations would only worsen Poland’s relations with Germany. However, is it possible to talk about a good partnership relationship at all until the reparations issue is resolved?
Truth never worsens relations between nations. This also applies to the history of relations with Ukraine, which is very difficult for us. It has to come off sooner or later. Of course, this does not prevent Ukraine from helping today. Also in the case of Germany, it can be seen that the lack of truth-based solutions to historical problems has only resulted in the deterioration of relations between nations, and the same will also be true in the case of Germany, with whom we have very good relations especially in economic matters (where 2015). we are fighting for economic independence, which makes it difficult for Germany to partner with us, but this is their problem, not ours). Due to a number of investments that we have recently made, Germany had to redefine its economic relations with Poland, which would no longer be an area of economic colonization. In the end, however, it will not change good economic relations, because Germany sooner or later will have to admit that Poland is changing, developing, leaving communism and is at a different stage of economic development.
These economic interests and the fact that we are together in the EU, which is also a variable body and not a static body – today dominated by left-wing circles, tomorrow may be dominated by conservative circles – gives us this comfort, thanks to which we can say to ourselves that the truth on the topic of World War II was revealed and meant great progress in the dialogue between the countries of Poland and Germany. I especially look at public opinion and certain organized social groups in Germany, which will at some point realize that the German state needs to be prepared to engage in dialogue with the Polish state sooner or later.
Thank you very much for the interview.
JJ size
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