Public opinion at that time [w 2004 r.- red.] shocked by what happened and MPs knew they had to react. Today, however, they are trying to act against Polish interests, perhaps in the name of their own interests linked to political circles in Germany. I really can’t understand it,” said prof. Arkadiusz Jabłoński, sociologist at the Catholic University of Lublin.

READ ALSO:

– Massive discussion of repairs on TVP. Kropiwnicki’s absurd accusations! “You just want to rob Poland one more time”

-How strong is Polish support for reparations? OUR SURVEY, conducted before the Report was published, brought interesting results

wPolyce.pl: In terms of reparations, the Polish opposition “supports and even opposes”. There have been suggestions that the government took no specific action and only about “shooting the Germans”, while deputy knockout Robert Kropiwnicki even suggested that the goal of the Polish authorities was to “steal” de facto funds from the so-called lost wages. How would you comment on such a revelation?

Prof. Arkadiusz Jabłoński: MP Kropiwnicki tried to oppose Poland’s attempts to obtain compensation for war losses, pointing to the fact that these losses were suffered by certain people and that they would not receive sufficient compensation, as money that might end up in Poland would be transferred directly to Polish authorities .

This is clearly a misunderstanding, because the distribution of compensation that Poland can receive can be done in various ways. My guess is that one of them is the payment of money to people who suffered real damage or loss related to World War II and the German occupation or their heirs.

So it seems to me that we are dealing with “finding holes in the whole”, if only to disagree with the fact that finally someone has taken up the subject of reparations and tried to give certain dimensions, and not left within the scope of such general and abstract considerations.

On the other hand, we hear from prominent opposition politicians, such as Radosław Sikorski, Grzegorz Schetyna or Civic Platform leader Donald Tusk, former SLD chairman Leszek Miller – that this “hit Germany”, “attack” Germany, and moreover – that they expect special action from the government, because so far it is only a game for internal use.

Yes, it’s the same cycle of thinking, which is looking for holes in everything again. The opposition first pointed out that the text of the report was in Polish only. Okay, but you have to wait and there will be a translation into German. I want to remind you that President Lech Kaczyński’s report on the losses suffered by Warsaw has not been translated to this day, despite the fact that the Civic Platform has ruled the capital for several years.

The fact that the PiS president, Prime Minister Morawiecki and MP Mularczyk have just presented the state of the loss and the calculation of its value is only the beginning of a diplomatic offensive. Showing some kind of plan of action in this attack is a contradiction in itself. Because if I want to offend, I can’t reveal everything I’m going to do. This should be a process in which the Polish authorities will also take into account the reactions of the world, German society and the various political groups in Germany. Activities must be adapted to the context in which they are carried out in a sustainable manner. The opposition is trying to distance itself from the document prepared by experts from the Institute of War Losses and a parliamentary team led by PiS MP Arkadiusz Mularczyk, only to raise doubts or even unnecessary concern in the public.

In early 2004, the Sejm voted – also by the vote of many Civil Coalition politicians today – in favor of Germany’s call to pay damages to Poland. How can it be that politicians who, like Civic Platform leader Donald Tusk, voted in favor of the resolution, today show a different position?

You need to pay attention to the international context of the time. It was the moment when Erika Steinbach, the Expellees Federation, and assorted compatriots began to turn the situation around and make claims against Poland. That is why the Polish Sejm tried to silence these circles.

However, the situation at the time also showed what strange things a lack of initiative, self-defense, and self-interest could bring about. The public was shocked at the time by what happened and MPs knew they had to react. Today, however, they are trying to act against Polish interests, perhaps in the name of their own interests linked to political circles in Germany. This is completely incomprehensible to me.

You are talking about relations with political circles in Germany. The Opposition, in turn, linked the relationship with Law and Justice with Russia. Some politicians and journalists have argued that calling for reparations from Germany at a time when the war crossed our eastern border was acting in Putin’s interests. There is even a question why the authorities did not apply for reparations from Russia – the heir to the Soviet Union, namely the second aggressor, who also caused great damage and destruction in Poland and killed most of the Poles. Despite the fact that the Soviet Union is the victorious side, or seeking reparations from Russia today – a country that does not recognize its responsibility, even morally, for the crimes of World War II (while Germany repeatedly speaks of moral responsibility and certain symbolic gestures) , which states that the Red Army liberated Europe, including Poland, from Nazism, and which has waged a brutal and cruel war in Ukraine for more than half a year, and at the same time attacked Putin’s aggression), spreading disinformation, accusing our country, for example, malicious intent against Ukraine, but also made various threats – does it make sense now?

First of all: this reparation or damage is recovered precisely from the countries that lost the war. Whatever we say about the Soviet Union, it was one of the winners’ allies, not the losers.

Second: we can actually have the right to claim, for example, the fact that we were even robbed of the money that Germany paid to the Soviet Union and which should have been in part, 15 percent. devoted to Poland. It turned out that not only did we not receive this amount, but we also incur additional costs.

On the other hand, however, such claims, apart from in a war situation, would be dangerous if they would become a Russian propaganda factory, which would argue that Poland was not only acting against Russia, but also trying to coerce Russia. by “illegitimate” demanding payment of a certain amount.

Persuading the Polish authorities in this kind of action may be a further provocation to total chaos. Trying to make the average Polish citizen lose respect and understanding for the actions taken in this matter.

Meanwhile, Germany stated that the issue of reparations for Poland was now closed. In this regard, the German Ministry of Foreign Affairs, on the day when the report on war losses was presented in Poland, referred to the 1953 statement of the Council of Ministers, which was not recognized by the Polish side for various reasons. Do we have a chance for reparation in the current situation?

If we don’t give ourselves a chance to check if it is possible to receive reparations, we will fail ourselves first. It won’t be an easy process, but history is unpredictable, so we can do what we’re responsible for and not worry about what doesn’t depend on us. We can even wait for the right moment if it can’t be fully realized right away.

However, without preparing a balance sheet for the losses that Poland suffered during World War II, we would not be able to take any steps – politically, diplomatically or legally. And now, when we have prepared the report, we can start with diplomatic and political action, try also legal measures, and – depending on the changing historical context (and the dynamics of the processes taking place in Europe and in the world today are very strong). ) – we can try to change everything for your benefit and finally get a repair.

Thank you very much for the interview.

Interview with Joanna Jaszczuk